Tuesday, October 16, 2007

"Elder Brother" Rabbis: Catholicism is Idolatry, But Buddhism and Islam are Not

Here is an excerpt from the Jerusalem Post's Q&A with Rabbi Chaim Brovender in which the good rabbi explains that burning incense to a Buddha statue is not idolatry but entering a Catholic church is "problematic". The term Avoda Zara means "idolatry":

Q: I was recently on a business trip, and while I found the city to be very nice etc., I am a bit concerned. I visited an Asian restaurant, not owned by Jews, (Under the local Rabbis) There seemed to be active idolatry taking place. There was a statue of Buddha, where they had placed a large bowl of oranges and burning incense right in the entrance to the place. At the end of the meal I was served oranges (Possibly ones that were previously in front of Buddha) Is this place considered a "Bais Avodah Zorah" ? And can a Jew eat there?

A: Avoda Zara should certainly be avoided. For that reason going into a Catholic church (perhaps real idolatry) is problematic. However, Buddism is different. There the reference is to a great religious teacher called "the enlightened one". It is hard to imagine why this might be called Avoda Zara. (Ask the rabbi, Jerusalem Post, Rabbi Chaim Brovender, Aug. 21, 2007)


Some may recall that during Cardinal Lustiger's funeral recently one commentator noted that the Conservative and Orthodox rabbis in attendance would not enter the Cathedral:

Inside the cathedral a special area was reserved in the front rows for "the Jewish Community." France's leading Reform rabbi, Daniel Fahri, was there with his wife, but no Conservative or Orthodox rabbi attended. "They wouldn't step foot in here," a friend confided to me ...


This is based upon the ruling of the most authoritative "sage" of Judaism, Moses Maimonides:

"The Christians are idolaters, and Sunday is their holiday..." (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Avodah Zorah, 9;4)

“The Christians are worshipers of Avodah Zarah” (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Ma'akhalot Assurot, 11:7)

It may interest "Judeo-Christians" to know that while "elder brother" Maimonides strictly maintained Christians to be idolaters, he ruled that Muslims are not idolators:

"These Muslims [Ishmaelim] are not in any way idolators. [Idolatry] has already been removed from their mouths and their hearts, and they unify G-d in the appropriate manner without any admixture [of idolatrous beliefs]." (Maimonides, Responsa, 448)

However, this should not be taken to mean that Islam should be tolerated according to Maimonides. In fact, Maimonides completely forbids Islam under Judaic rule (Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Melachim 8;11). Christians and Muslims would be forced to accept the Talmudic religion for goys, the "Noahide Laws." Christians who uphold the Trinity and the Divinity of Christ would be executed:

"... a gentile who worships false gods is liable, [for the death penalty] provided he worships them in the accepted manner. A gentile is executed for every type of foreign worship which a Jewish court would consider worthy of capital punishment." (Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Melachim 11)

I hope that this may shed some light upon the monstrous terms "Judeo-Christian tradition," and "elder brothers in the faith" and the crazy notion that "Israel" is a bulwark against the decline of Christian civilization.

For further information:



Itzchak said...

I can finally agree with you one something. It became very clear to me early on in my studies that Christianity myth that a human being is God is clearly idolatry.
I have always been repelled by Judaism being linked with christianity by the Judeo-Christian moniker.

Anonymous said...

Ha ha ha---Itzchak, poster boy for Talmudic contempt of Christ. Just one question: why is it that "Jesus as God" provokes your hatred, whereas you have no trouble holding rabbis to be God? And let's get specific, as when Rabbi Steinsaltz, current head of the Sanhedrin, claimed in the preface to his commentary of the kabbalistic "scripture" the Tanya that his own commentary was "oral Torah," or the Word of God? Kind of makes him God, wouldn't you say? Or are you going to run counter to the Sanhedrin--like Jesus?

You'll probably try to post some sort of evasive, double-talking denial straight out of the tradition of pilpul, but deep down somewhere, if your soul hasn't shrunk to the size of an acorn, you have to know how inconsistent you are on this point. The very fact of the inconsistency points out your real principle: not opposition to idolatry, which you engage in without blinking an eye when it comes to rabbis, but simple opposition to Jesus.

Perhaps like St. Paul you might even wonder if you are on the right side. May YHWH open your overly zealous eyes.

Itzchak said...

My friend:
All commentary is Oral Torah...that does not mean it is the word of God.
That is not idolatry. I don't believe any rabbi or any human being is God.
That would be idolatrous. And hence my derision about holding some Jewish guy who may or may not have even lived (Paul never met him) as God.
What a horrible waste of spiritual energy amounting to horrible historical repression and very little edification of humankind.

Anonymous said...

>>>All commentary is Oral Torah...that does not mean it is the word of God.

Ah, Itzchak--you did just as I predicted. This type of lawyerly shysterism is so thin it makes rice paper look like lead lining.

I am well aware that "Torah" in Judaism has many meanings, and does not simply refer to the Bible (Old Testament) as many assume. Thank you for admitting this point.

The key to decoding your statement, however, is that "Torah" includes the pronouncements of rabbis while at the same time including the Bible. While you deny that their statements are the Word of God, you are placing their statements on a level with the Old Testament itself. This is an act of blasphemy which assumes an implicit level of idolatry regarding these "Torah-generating" rabbis.

>>>That is not idolatry. I don't believe any rabbi or any human being is God.
That would be idolatrous.

Once again, thank you for expanding my statement to speak beyond rabbis to other "human beings." In fact I was too narrow in my claim: Judaism teaches that not only rabbis have divine status, but so does every "Jew." In the kabbalistic "scripture" commented upon by Sanhedrin leader Rabbi Steinsaltz, we find (chapter two) this incredible claim: "The second soul of the Jew is a part of God above, literally." Compare that statement with this remark in the preceding chapter of your "scripture:" "The souls of the nations of the world, however, derive from the other impure kelipot [evil trash; husks or shells] which contain no good whatsoever."

So every Jew is divine--is "part of God"--which extends this ridiculous idolatry to your entire Judaic community. At the same time, the rest of the world is held to be completely demonic and evil. And you pretend to be worried about Jesus and how Christians regard Him?

Judaic racial idolatry has been the subject of scathing analysis and comment by honest men such as the late Hebrew University Professor Israel Shahak, who exposed it for what it is--ugly, Master Race idolatry which has led to bloody pogroms against "lesser" people such as the Palestinians.

But back to the rabbis for one more comment: in the Talmud, Baba Mezia 59b, a rabbi "defeats" God in a debate, and God "admits defeat." Strictly speaking this makes a rabbi superior to God. I don't think the term exists for this type of hyper-idolatry; perhaps we will have to invent one.

>>>And hence my derision about holding some Jewish guy who may or may not have even lived (Paul never met him) as God.

Sure, Tacitus just hallucinated those references to Jesus, as did Josephus. And I'm glad your personal divine omniscience allows you to overturn the claims of St. Paul himself. Speaking from your "second soul," I assume?

>>>What a horrible waste of spiritual energy amounting to horrible historical repression and very little edification of humankind.

Too kind a comment, but otherwise a decent summary remark about Judaism.

Itzchak, may you prayerfully seek the truth. If you do, you will find it. It is time for me to return to many other projects and leave further comment to others. I have enormous tasks to complete, but your tragically absurd remarks needed at least a passing refutation to expose the style of deception, or self-deception, which they embody. May you find the Messiah.

John Zebedee said...

'Abodah Zorah'that's a Talmudic book that means 'House of Abomination', no?...well, to Jews,
anything not owned by them is an abomination, or,at least, a stumbling block...but, borrowing a
phrase from our 'Elder Brothers' I
would have to say that the State of
Israel is 'Abodah Zorah'...maybe you could ask the 'Akun' living there, namely the Palestinians.