Pope Francis in Kahal

Pope Francis in Kahal

Tuesday, August 12, 2008

'Noahide' Churchgoers United For 'Israel' Conference Attracts Record Numbers

Joe Lieberman was keynote speaker at this Hagee Conference.

... Asking Catholic League leader Bill Donohue to rise to applause, Hagee said they had settled their differences ... three prominent members of the Catholic league in the audience ... Joining [Daniel Pipes] at the podium was Senator Rick Santorum ...

Christians United for Israel Attracts Record Numbers at Conference

August 11th, 2008

Fern Sidman

The electricity in the air was palpable in the nation's capitol as these words from the prophet Isaiah served as the battle cry for a record number of over 7,000 Christian supporters of Israel who gathered on July 20-23 to attend the third annual Washington Summit of the Christians United For Israel organization at the Washington, DC Convention Center. Founded in February of 2006 by Pastor John Hagee, Senior Pastor of The Cornerstone Church of San Antonio, Texas and President and CEO of John Hagee Ministries, Christians United For Israel represents the premiere Christian evangelical national grassroots movement focused on the support of Israel. Having called upon Christian leaders from across America to join him in launching this new initiative, Pastor Hagee enlisted the help of over 400 Christian ministers, each representing a denomination, mega-church, media ministry, publishing company, or Christian university. Each one answered the call and Christians United for Israel was born. Today, CUFI boasts a membership of over 50 million Christian Zionists in America.

Unlike other Christian evangelical organizations whose raison d'etre is to persuade Jews to embrace the teachings of Jesus and to convert, CUFI lauds the Jewish faith and tradition and exhorts Jews to return to G-d and the timeless teachings of the Torah. As such, Pastor Hagee has created alliances with many Orthodox rabbis and organizations, including Rabbi Yitzchok Dovid Grossman of Israel's Migdal Ohr. Quoting scripture to support his thesis that Christians are obligated to love Jews and lend their succor to Israel, Pastor Hagee said, "In the Bible, G-d says, "I will bless those that bless you and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you" (Genesis 12:3) and we Christians must support Israel's right to the land because G-d commanded us to. In Genesis, (13:14-17), the Bible says: "The L-rd said unto Abram… 'Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art.. for all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever…"

The main objective of the attendees, who hailed from every state in the nation as well as Canada, Europe, Israel, and Africa was to lobby their elected officials for their complete commitment to support the State of Israel in these most "trying times". Continual references to the growing threat of an Iranian nuclear attack on Israel and the proliferation of such well funded terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hezbollah captured center stage at the summit. In a forceful declaration, Pastor Hagee intoned, "There is a new Hitler in the Middle East; he is the President of Iran. He intends to build nuclear weapons and his brazen declarations to kill the Jews have been carried on the front pages of the world's press. In 1935, the Christians of the world were silent. In the 21st century, Christians are united in their support of Israel. We will not be silent. In our pulpits… on our global media networks… in our schools and universities and in the halls of Congress, we will not keep silent. The voice of evil will not go uncontested in our generation. Not on our watch !!"

The summit included a veritable cornucopia of celebrated speakers, as participants attended two days of seminars that featured Nitsana Darshan-Leitner, Director of Shurat HaDin, the Israel Law Center, who spoke most eloquently on the subject of divestments, sanctions and boycotts of those US firms conducting fiduciary business with Iran, Syria and the terrorist organizations that they fund. Other speakers included

Daniel Pipes, Director of Middle East Forum, a Washington based think tank who addressed the overflowing audience on the burgeoning growth of radical Islam. Joining him on the podium was Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA) and Dr. Walid Phares, Director of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies' Future of Terrorism Project. Frank Gaffney, Founder and President of the Center for Security Policy presented facts on the nuclear buildup of the Iranian regime along with Clifford May, President of The Foundation for the Defense of Democracies. David Brog, Executive Director of CUFI led a talking points seminar, advising attendees on the issues they should raise to their elected officials when visiting them on Capitol Hill.

Congressman Elliot Engel (D-NY) joined Congressman Mike Pence (R-IN) in the Middle East briefing seminar. Referring to the avalanche of liberal pressure being applied to Congressman Engel to cancel his appearance at the CUFI summit Congressman Pence said, "My colleague from New York, Congressman Engel and I agree on very little, except when it comes to our complete support for nation of Israel. My presence here today is certainly no surprise. I am a Christian evangelical and it was just a matter of scheduling but for Congressman Engel being here today was an act of moral courage."

Dennis Prager, nationally syndicated radio host was the keynote speaker at the Chairman's Club Donor Banquet which concluded the first day's events on Monday, July 21. His speech was followed by a private concert given by famed country singer, Randy Travis.

The cornerstone of the three day conference was the elaborately produced "Night to Honor Israel" banquet which was broadcast live to both a national and international audience by the religious cable television network Day Star. Over 8000 people attending the dinner danced with joy and waved both Israeli and American flags while being entertained by the CUFI choir who sang uplifting Jewish and American folk songs. The evening's invocation was delivered by Rabbi Aryeh Scheinberg of Congregation Rodeph Shalom of San Antonio, Texas. He blessed Pastor Hagee for his "loyalty, leadership and devotion" to the Jewish people and the land of Israel and heaped accolades upon him for the millions of dollars he has raised for Torah institutions in Israel. "I have known and loved Pastor John Hagee for over 25 years. There can be no overstating the depth and sincerity of his devotion to Israel" said Rabbi Scheinberg.

A professionally produced short documentary on the history of modern Israel was shown which included footage on the birth of the political Zionist movement under Theodore Herzl, the contributions of the father of modern Hebrew, Eliezer Ben Yehuda, the history of anti-Semitism in Europe, the Czarist pogroms, the Holocaust and the emergence of the State of Israel in 1948.

Dan Gillerman, the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations expressed his wholehearted appreciation to CUFI for their unabashed declarations of support for the "Jewish claim" to the land of Israel. He lamented the fact that the United Nations had devolved into a rogues gallery of nations seething with hatred towards Israel and said that the "glass building on 42nd Street and First Avenue in Manhattan had become a terrible place to work".

Pastor John Hagee then ascended the podium, assuming his posture as pastor, delivered a passionate speech that was met with thunderous applause and several standing ovations. Referring to the recent controversy that swirled around him regarding Republican presidential hopeful, Sen John McCain's (R-AZ) repudiation of his endorsement, Pastor Hagee said, "The days of remaining silent in the face of Jew haters is over. We say 'Never Again' to the likes of Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, 'Never Again' to Hamas terrorists, 'Never Again to the United Nations, 'Never Again' to universities that espouse hatred for Israel and 'Never Again' to endorsements of presidential candidates."

He spoke of his own tribulations; saying that "the casualty of war is always truth". Having been labeled by the media as an anti-Semite (because of the premeditated twisting of his remarks concerning G-d bringing about the Holocaust so that the Jews would be forced to go to the land of Israel) and a Catholic basher, he countered these accusations by introducing three prominent members of the Catholic league in the audience and pledged his continued cooperation to work with any groups who support the historic and religious right of the Jewish people to their homeland. He expressed no apologies for the Biblical origins of CUFI and told the media in no uncertain terms that "CUFI is alive and well, stronger than ever and we are not leaving."

Alluding to the fact that the Jewish people were the first witnesses to G-d at Mount Sinai, Pastor Hagee concluded by saying, "Israel will be the praise of all the earth, the Jewish people have given us the Bible, the prophets and we cannot explain our existence as Christians without the Jews, but the Jews can explain their existence without us Christians. There would be no Christianity today without the Jews."

The evening built to a crescendo as keynote speaker, Senator Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) was introduced by Gary Bauer, President of American Values. In addition to Congressman Elliot Engel of New York, Sen. Lieberman was also subjected to vitriolic media attacks for addressing the CUFI summit. In a scathing condemnation in The Huffington Post on May 27, 2008, columnist Max Blumenthal wrote, "Why won't Lieberman, who is married to the daughter of Holocaust survivors, end his relationship with Hagee? Why, in apparent defiance of the McCain campaign, does he remain scheduled to headline Hagee's upcoming summit? If Lieberman plans to continue touting his moral fiber and independence as his greatest assets, he must renounce the hate-mongering Hagee." Yet Sen. Joseph Lieberman remained committed to his support of Pastor Hagee and CUFI. On May 13, Fox News' Megan Kelly asked Senator Lieberman to respond to the gathering criticism of Hagee's remarks. But instead of distancing himself from Hagee's views as McCain had, Lieberman launched into a spirited defense of the televangelist, describing him as someone who "represents a lot of people in this country, particularly Christians who care about the state of Israel."

Despite a petition that garnered 42,000 signatures circulated by 'J Street', a left wing pro-Palestinian lobbying movement exhorting Senator Lieberman to cancel his appearance at the 'Night to Honor Israel', the senator proudly took the rostrum and told the audience, "I am your brother Joseph", a clear reference to the Yosef HaTzaddik who revealed himself to his brothers in the Bible. Said Senator Lieberman, "As you may know - there has been an organized and aggressive campaign to convince me to cancel my speech this evening, following the political controversy that broke out over Pastor Hagee and some of the comments he made. But the bond I feel with Pastor John Hagee and each of you - including a significant delegation from Connecticut - is much stronger than that and so I am proud to stand with you here tonight."

Quoting the Bible on numerous occasions throughout his speech, Senator Lieberman said, "Throughout too much of the world, it seems that Israel is condemned for its every move, while excuses are invented for every indecency of its enemies. On its borders are terrorist enemies and nearby is Iran, whose fanatical president threatens Israel's very existence. But we do not fear because we know that it says in the Bible: "You name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with G-d and with men and you have prevailed."

Continuing on the issue of the Iranian nuclear capabilities, Senator Lieberman told the audience who sat in rapt attention, "The threat from Iran lies not just in their arming, training and funding terrorists throughout the Middle East and the world, but even more from the nuclear weapons development program they are clearly pursuing. History warns us what can happen when we don't take the threats of such tyrants and terrorists seriously. We must not repeat this mistake."

He urged the Christian lobbyists to persuade their elected officials to support the 'Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability and Divestment Act of 2008' which was recently approved by the Senate Banking Committee. He said, "Foreign banks and companies don't want to lose the ability to operate in the US and trade with us, and so the sanctions in this bill will help economically isolate the regime in Teheran."

Sen Lieberman lauded the commitment of the assemblage by saying, "People who move the world do not believe that it is inevitable they will sit atop the world. They lead not because they believe in their greatness, but because they believe in a cause that is greater than themselves. They see a mission to accomplish, a destiny to shape.. That is precisely what all of you here do. You see Israel and America under threat - and so you stand up for both. You stand for Israel not because it is easy or because it is popular - but because it is right. You stand up for Israel because you recognize that it is a cause that is just and honorable, because it is a cause greater than yourselves."

Also attending the "Night To Honor Israel" was a formidable contingent of Orthodox Jews from both the USA and Israel. The CUFI staff made arrangements with a local Washington, DC glatt kosher caterer, thus providing kosher meals of the highest standard for their Jewish supporters. Helen Freedman, member of the executive board of American For a Safe Israel said, "I am here tonight to show my support for an organization that courageously extols the 'Jewish right' to the land of Israel". Also present at the banquet were Nitsana Darshan-Leitner of the Israel Law Center, journalist and Bet El, Israel resident, Rabbi Yedidya Atlas, Mike Cohen, a Zionist educator from Israel, Roy S. Neuberger, author of the recently released novel by Feldheim Publishers entitled, "2020 Vision" and his wife Leah and Ariel Kotler of Teaneck, New Jersey representing One Family Fund, an organization that provides direct financial, legal, and emotional assistance to victims of terrorism in Israel.

Said one prominent Orthodox leader who chose not to reveal his name. "Coming here tonight and participating in this gathering is a Kiddush Hashem (a sanctification of G-d's name). Pastor Hagee is truly an 'Ish Elokim', a man of G-d, who has no nefarious agenda when it comes to Jews and Israel. We are most grateful for his sincere devotion to Eretz Yisroel (the land of Israel) and we obligated by Hashem (G-d) to show our Hakores HaTov (appreciation) to our friends."

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/08/11/christians-united-for-israel-attracts-record-numbers-at-conference/



Hagee, backed by Lieberman,
strikes defiant note at D.C. parley


By Ron Kampeas Published: 07/23/2008

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- The choir danced a hora, the fiddler played a hoedown, Joe Lieberman cited scripture and Pastor John Hagee said his enemies would never draw him away from Israel.

Thousands of followers of Christians United for Israel, the movement Hagee founded, traveled this week across the United States to pack the cavernous Washington Convention Center in a defiant show of strength.

In the signature "Night to Honor Israel" on Tuesday, Hagee depicted himself as emerging from a lion's den of media dissimulation and political iniquity.

"There have been a great many misrepresentations and a great deal of confusion sown," Hagee said, his baritone booming over a constant swell of cheers and blessings.

Hagee was referring to the intense and at times outright hostile scrutiny he suffered this year after he endorsed the presidential candidacy of U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.)

Within weeks Hagee withdrew his endorsement, unwilling to suffer a depiction of himself -- some of it distorted -- as a bigot who reviled Catholics, gays and Muslims and who was insensitive to the suffering of Jews during the Holocaust.

The experience clearly scarred Hagee. His speeches are usually optimistic prophecies of an Israel thriving against the odds, but on Tuesday night his sermon was peppered with dark, wistful humor.

His routine litany of "Never agains" punctuating pledges to protect the Jews from terrorists, Iran and anti-Semites was rounded out with a new promise Tuesday night: "What will I say the next time I'm asked to endorse a presidential candidate? Never again."

Hagee described a "vicious media firestorm" -- not surprisingly, the media was barred from much of the four-day conference. During the parts open to the press Tuesday, CUFI volunteers rushed to abort any attempts to interview conference attendees.

"You are not covering our dark motives, you are expressing your dark motives," Hagee told reporters.

Hagee's strident support for Israel and the settlement policies of Israeli hawks has been controversial since he launched his first "Night to Honor Israel" in San Antonio, the hometown of his Cornerstone megachurch, in the early 1980s.

Since then, he claims to have raised $30 million -- a portion of it for building in West Bank settlements -- and in 2006 went nationwide by founding CUFI with an array of other popular evangelical preachers.

Hagee said the attacks he suffered subsequent to his McCain endorsement were nothing less than a campaign to separate Americans from their beliefs.

"We need to be careful that we don’t allow belief in the Bible to be unacceptable," he said.

It was clear that the most hurtful episode for Hagee was the emergence of out-of-context excerpts of sermons in the mid-1990s in which he attempted to offer a theological explanation for how God would allow the mass murder of the Jews.

Adolf Hitler, he said at the time, was a demonic agent of God driving the Jews back to their historic homeland.

Such a "theology of suffering" is not inconsistent with an evangelical outlook that seeks a divine explanation for even the most incomprehensible historical events. In the heat of the presidential campaign, however, a few liberal bloggers and media commentators twisted this relatively commonplace exegesis into Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism.

In an issue of The Torch, the movement's magazine distributed at the conference, Gary Bauer, a leading political evangelical, said the attacks were "obscenely distorting."

David Brog, CUFI's Jewish executive director, likened Hagee's suffering during the episode to a "new inquisition."

"Breathe in deeply and you can still smell the embers smoldering around Pastor Hagee's public persona," Brog wrote.

Bruce Wilson, a progressive blogger, posted the video of the Holocaust sermons. That led Hagee's lawyers to force YouTube to pull down any video depicting his preaching, citing copyright infringement.

Some of the defiance on Tuesday night masked a conciliatory tone, however.

Hagee again expressed his skepticism of land-for-peace formulas, but added, "We do not decide -- the Israelis decide and they alone have the right to make that decision."

The reference apparently was to Rabbi Eric Yoffie, the Reform Jewish leader who earlier this year urged Jewish groups to cut off Hagee in part because of his strident advocacy of settlement building and concerns that he would seek to undermine Israeli peace moves.

Hagee also was careful when he referred to Islamist terrorists, describing them as hewing to a "radical interpretation of Islam" -- a moderation of his earlier, more sweeping condemnation of the religion.

He also had as guests at the event Roman Catholic lay leaders who had criticized Hagee for his denunciations of anti-Semitism in which he used language once associated with radical Vatican-hating Protestants.

Asking Catholic League leader Bill Donohue to rise to applause, Hagee said they had settled their differences.

The thrust of the evening's message was that if anything, the events have driven Hagee and his Jewish friends closer together. The 3,000 CUFI followers waved Israeli and American flags throughout the event. Hagee's choir and orchestra slid from a traditional hora-driven rendition of "Hava Nagila" into a country western version complete with soaring fiddle.

His longtime friend from San Antonio, Rabbi Aryeh Scheinberg, blessed the evening's events.

Dan Gillerman, the outgoing Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, told Hagee's followers that their love for Israel sustained him during his six years in the post.

"I pray that God will continue to bless you with success," Gillerman said.

The biggest "get," however, was U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), the first Jew to land a spot on a major national presidential ticket when he ran for vice president with Al Gore in 2000 as a Democrat.

J Street, a new left-wing pro-Israel lobby, on Monday had delivered a petition with 42,000 signatures to Lieberman's office urging "Don't Go Joe." It cited Hagee's inflammatory statements about Muslims and gays, as well as his backing for settlements.

Lieberman, who appeared to a hero's welcome, cited the petition only to say that he ignored its pleadings. He said he recognized Hagee as flawed, but that was mitigated by the greater good he helped bring about.

Citing scripture, Lieberman said the same could be said of Moses and Miriam, whose flaws of anger and pettiness are noted in the Bible.

"I can only imagine what the bloggers would have to say about Moses and Miriam," Lieberman said. "Judge each other with the humility that comes from the certainty that each and every one of us is imperfect."

The presence of Lieberman, a leading surrogate for McCain, also underscored a political tinge to the proceedings, despite Hagee's assurances that he was out of politics for good.

Hagee's praise for President Bush was drowned out by cheers and applause. Bauer, introducing Lieberman, likened him to President Ronald Reagan and praised him for standing up to the anti-war wing of the Democratic Party and running as an independent in 2006 after he was ousted in a primary.

Lieberman described an amendment he sponsored last year declaring Iran's Revolutionary Guard a terrorist group as a "no-brainer" that drew the votes of 76 senators. U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, opposed the amendment.

Lieberman, whose approval rate in Connecticut and among Jews is plummeting, clearly enjoyed the moment. He loved CUFI, he said, because "I can go back to scripture more than with many other groups -- frankly, including many Jewish groups."

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/article/2008072320080723hageeliberman.html

11 comments:

Ian Thal said...

Actually, quite a large number of Jews regard Pastor Hagee's theology of the Apocalypse to be essentially anti-Semitic as it ultimately is based on the End Times prophecy that Israel is to be destroyed and the surviving Jews are to be humbled for having not converted to Christianity.

J Street, furthermore, while it can be described as "left-wing" or "liberal", is pro-Israel and a predominantly Jewish organization. J Street's failed attempt to persuade Senator Lieberman to distance himself from Hagee is precisely because its membership perceived Hagee's teachings as anti-Semitic.

Do all Jews agree on these points? Of course not. But Judaism is a religion that allows people to disagree and remain members of the community.

michael korn said...

Zionism has emerged as the key to promoting Christian unity via demonization of Islam. However it appears even Saudi Arabia and other Islamic regimes are siding with those who wish to attack Iran. Thus one might say that Iran and "radical Islam" has become the fulcrum to leverage Jews, Protestans, Catholics, and Moderate Muslems into complete solidarity.

Maurice Pinay said...

Actually, quite a large number of Jews regard Pastor Hagee's theology of the Apocalypse to be essentially anti-Semitic as it ultimately is based on the End Times prophecy that Israel is to be destroyed and the surviving Jews are to be humbled ...

Hagee's eschatology is anti-Judaic (not anti-Semitic) and insane, but what of the rabbis of Chabad, Neturei Karta, Satmar, and others who've claimed that the Nazi persecutions were divinely orchestrated punishments of Judaic persons who did not follow the teachings of the rabbis?

Hagee plainly is a rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth Zionist. I don't believe him to be any more dangerous to Judaic persons than Olmert, Netanyahu, Sharon, Shamir, or the Kabbalist "end of days" messianic rabbis who have much influence in the Israeli state and in the U.S. and elsewhere. Needless to say, non-Judaic persons are just as much endangered by this lunacy.

Do all Jews agree on these points? Of course not. But Judaism is a religion that allows people to disagree and remain members of the community.

What branch of Judaism? Orthodox?

Orthodox Judaism is a religion which at present is putting forth the illusion of tolerance for reasons of expedience but if you were an Orthodox Judaic person in pre-haskalah Europe you could be flogged, have your tongue cut out or be assassinated by the rabbis for heresy against their doctrine. In certain closed communities this kind of tyranny still exists. If rabbinic power is consolidated under the recently reestablished Sanhedrin you can rest assured that the "tolerant" masquerade would drop and there would be floggings, etc. for Judaic "heretics" and beheadings for non-Judaic violators of the "Noahide Laws."

By the way, I visited your blog and found your enthusiasm for the masquerade and the golem to be interesting. I wonder how aware you are of the arcana of these traditions.

http://ianthal.blogspot.com/

Ian Thal said...

what of the rabbis of Chabad, Neturei Karta, Satmar, and others who've claimed that the Nazi persecutions were divinely orchestrated punishments of Judaic persons who did not follow the teachings of the rabbis?

a.) Chabad, Neturei Karta and Satmar sects make up a small minority amongst Jews. Further more, the NK sect are largely pariahs due to their presence at the Holocaust Denial Conference in Tehran.

b.) I would say that their theology is insane as well. For that matter: the Satmars and the NK are hardly friends of Israel.

c.) The evidence that the Shoah was the work of men and of governments is immense and saying that it was divinely orchestrated seems more like a refusal to see what is in front of one's face.

Hagee's eschatology is anti-Judaic.... Hagee plainly is a rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth Zionist.

Seems odd that one can be an anti-Judaic Zionist-- though it describes Hagee and his followers accurately. The distinction between anti-Judaism and anti-Semitism while valid on a purely academic level (one being religious contempt and the other being racism) isn't particularly helpful here as the desired result is an apocalypse in which the Jews are destroyed.

What branch of Judaism? Orthodox?

My point was not that there was no intolerance in the entire Jewish world (obviously there is) merely that there are lots of opinions amongst Jews so that J Street can be pro-Israel while still being opposed to Senator Lieberman's notion of pro-Israel-- and it was intellectually irresponsible for the author of the article you reposted to identify J Street as "pro-Palestinian."

Thanks for checking on my blog; My discussion of masks and the golem has to do with my career as a theatre artist. Yes, I'm always educating myself on the arcana of these instruments.

Maurice Pinay said...

a.) Chabad, Neturei Karta and Satmar sects make up a small minority amongst Jews. Further more, the NK sect are largely pariahs due to their presence at the Holocaust Denial Conference in Tehran.

b.) I would say that their theology is insane as well. For that matter: the Satmars and the NK are hardly friends of Israel.

c.) The evidence that the Shoah was the work of men and of governments is immense and saying that it was divinely orchestrated seems more like a refusal to see what is in front of one's face.


Neturei Karta and Satmar may be small and marginal but Chabad is neither small or marginal. It's extremely powerful and influential, not only in Judaism but also in politics and government around the world. Chabad is decidedly Zionist and its rebbe, Menachem Schneerson promoted the idea that the Nazi persecutions were divinely orchestrated. Former Israeli Chief Rabbi Ovadia Yosef has also done so. There are others. This is not an obscure idea within Judaism, although it may be little known, and there is much similarity between Kabbalistic Messianism and Hagee's eschatology both of which are based in Kabbalistic "end of days" prophesy. If Judaic people are appalled at Hagee's theology regarding the Nazis and the end times they should also be appalled at the rabbis and their teachings from where the ideas originate.

In response to your point "c" I believe this goes far beyond a simple failure to acknowledge the obvious. It's a ploy for rabbinic control over Judaic people. The rabbis point to the Nazis and say "this is what will happen to you if you don't follow us." The Zionist "war on terror" is based in the same fear/control principle.

Seems odd that one can be an anti-Judaic Zionist-- though it describes Hagee and his followers accurately. The distinction between anti-Judaism and anti-Semitism while valid on a purely academic level (one being religious contempt and the other being racism) isn't particularly helpful here as the desired result is an apocalypse in which the Jews are destroyed.

I don't view the people who today identify as "Jews" as a particular ethnicity, much less direct descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Hence, the use of the term "Judaic" which I believe is an accurate identification for those who currently adhere to the ideology of Orthodox Judaism or descend from adherents to Orthodox Judaism and perhaps have secularized but still maintain a tribal identification with others of Orthodox Judaic background. It's a purely ideological matter from my standpoint. Hagee, however, is clearly obsessed with what he views to be a magical "Jewish" race of people, and clearly his teachings and the teachings of the rabbis are dangerous for those people and for everyone else.

My point was not that there was no intolerance in the entire Jewish world (obviously there is) merely that there are lots of opinions amongst Jews so that J Street can be pro-Israel while still being opposed to Senator Lieberman's notion of pro-Israel-- and it was intellectually irresponsible for the author of the article you reposted to identify J Street as "pro-Palestinian."

True, J Street is not pro-Palestinian.

Thanks for checking on my blog; My discussion of masks and the golem has to do with my career as a theatre artist. Yes, I'm always educating myself on the arcana of these instruments.

I'm also interested in the gnosis behind these things but not as an aficionado. I've found there to be a great deal of hostility behind them as with so many rabbinic traditions.

I likewise thank you for visiting and commenting at my blog.

Jim K. said...

As for the Islamic angle,that was planned by demonic blueprint in 1871.None of the things we are seeing are taking place by happenstance.The Lieberman aspect in all of this is almost unworthy of comment;it is clear that all politician's are subservient to Israel or zionists.Those that aren't,are marginalized in D'C.,and vilified in the MSM.The point missed here is that regardless of one's view on zionism,all Jews are above criticism due to the holocaust becoming an industry and Judaism the state religion of the Western Nations,most visibly in the USA.Oh...dear me I forgot to capitalize the word holocaust----Holocaust...there.

Jim said...

"Hagee's eschatology is anti-Judaic.... Hagee plainly is a rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth Zionist"ian thal said... Wrong.He is both pro-Judaic and pro-zionist.Christian Zionism is a Jew-Centered eschatology.In fact it goes beyond that.It is a Jewish theology based on Darby and Scofieldism.So the irony here is that there are supporters and opposers of the Hagee's,Lindsey's and other zionist christians predicated on their particular master race bent of Judaism,even though they worship the so-called "chosen people".Christianity has nothing to do with Judaism anymore than it has with Catholicism.Jesus is paid lip-service to but in one case the Jew is revered,in the other the pope is.Breaking down the sects in Judaism or nominal Chrisitinaity-cathoic or protestant-is an exercise in futility.ian thal's comments are bizarre.Zionists like Hagee place jews on a pedestal.And they never criticize Israel.Statements made in the press that run counter to zionists by jews or anyone else are simply fabrications in the form of controlled opposition.

Maurice Pinay said...

Wrong. [Hagee] is both pro-Judaic and pro-zionist.

Jim, the point is that Hagee's agenda, despite it being pro-Zionist and pro-Judaism, is ultimately harmful to the people he lobbies on behalf of and showers with cash, and it's harmful to everyone else.

Ian Thal said...

Maurice:

I think that you over estimate the influence of Chabad and Chabad eschatology within the Jewish community. Chabad is still a minority and the vast majority of Jews reject their strict interpretation both of scripture and their eschatological interpretation of the Holocaust.

Does Chabad seek to install rabbinic control over the Jewish people? Yes, but they only want their rabbis in control. Most Jews reject Chabad and prefer their non-Chabad rabbis, their non-Chabad congregations, and their non-Chabad interpretations of scripture.

Yes. I am in absolute agreement that the theology (and political agenda) of CUFI, and Chabad is bad for Jews and for Israel. Most Israelis have figured that out; most American Jews who follow these issues closely have figured that out as well.

I don't view the people who today identify as "Jews" as a particular ethnicity

Today's Jews are an ethnicity as far as anthropologists use the term. That said, while "race" is not an entity that the biological sciences recognize, but it doesn't stop racists, or a group from realizing that they are viewed as a race from the outside.

The Zionist "war on terror" is based in the same fear/control principle.

Israel's conflict with terrorists is with specific organizations that attack (or plan to attack) Israeli citizens. Israel acknowledges that it sometimes negotiates with its enemies if that's the best way of solving a problem. It's firmly grounded in realpolitik.

The U.S. "war on terror" as formulated by the current administration is some existential conflict with radical evil.

Are nut jobs in Israel? Yes. Are there pragmatists in the U.S.? Of course. But the two countries actually approach terrorism in completely different ways.

Maurice Pinay said...

I think that you over estimate the influence of Chabad and Chabad eschatology within the Jewish community. Chabad is still a minority and the vast majority of Jews reject their strict interpretation both of scripture and their eschatological interpretation of the Holocaust.

Does Chabad seek to install rabbinic control over the Jewish people? Yes, but they only want their rabbis in control. Most Jews reject Chabad and prefer their non-Chabad rabbis, their non-Chabad congregations, and their non-Chabad interpretations of scripture.



Nathaniel Popper writes in the Forward:

"... one of the fastest-growing and most influential movements in Judaism, Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidism."

http://www.forward.com/articles/10599/

Sue Fiskoff writes in My Jewish learning:

"At least half the pulpit rabbis in England, Italy, and Australia, and almost all in South Africa and Holland, are Lubavitchers, and Chabad exerts considerable influence in the Jewish communities of France and Germany. Chabad rabbis control kashrut (kosher food) supervision for several key cities around the world, and a Chabad rabbi heads the rabbini­cal council in Montreal. In the former Soviet Union, Chabad has emerged as the mainstream denomination in what is now the world's third-largest Jewish community….

"Chabad does not wield anywhere near the same Jewish institutional muscle in the United States. But the past decade has witnessed a sharp increase in the number of Lubavitchers teaching in non-Lubavitch Jewish schools and filling pulpit positions in non-Lubavitch synagogues in this country. And in the fast-growing Jewish communities of Florida and Cal­ifornia in particular, where Chabad Houses have been opening with great alacrity, Chabad is very often the only Orthodox presence in a given town or city. It is becoming the face of Jewish Orthodoxy for the Jewish and the general public."

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/history_community/Jewish_World_Today/Denominations/ChabadToday.htm


Yes. I am in absolute agreement that the theology (and political agenda) of CUFI, and Chabad is bad for Jews and for Israel. Most Israelis have figured that out; most American Jews who follow these issues closely have figured that out as well.

I've seen little evidence that they're acting on what you say they've figured out. And this is not only bad for Judaic people in the United States and the Israeli state, but for everyone else. I, for one, would appreciate some help from Judaic people in curbing this insanity. Thank God some are coming around, but not nearly enough. And Judaic anti-Zionism is great, but any good generated by such efforts will be transitory unless the rabbinic Judaism itself which informs Zionism is critically analyzed.


Today's Jews are an ethnicity as far as anthropologists use the term. That said, while "race" is not an entity that the biological sciences recognize, but it doesn't stop racists, or a group from realizing that they are viewed as a race from the outside.


Yes, there are non-Judaic racists who identify today's Judaic people as a race for racists reasons, but let us not leave out the fact that the rabbis and many Judaic persons themselves do the same, not only in reference to themselves but to other groups as well, ie. identifying Palestinians as "Amalek."


Israel's conflict with terrorists is with specific organizations that attack (or plan to attack) Israeli citizens. Israel acknowledges that it sometimes negotiates with its enemies if that's the best way of solving a problem. It's firmly grounded in realpolitik.


With all due respect, these are weasel words. The Israeli state regards practically all Palestinians and their democratically elected kapo "leaders" as "terrorists." The Israelis torture and summarily assassinate children, attack peace activists, aid workers and missionaries, destroy people's houses, steal their land, destroy farmers' crops and steal their water, oppress people based upon race and religion ... I could go on and on. These actions provoke an angry response and then Israeli politicians tell Israelis and the rest of the world that the angry Palestinians "hate them because they're Jews," just as G.W. Bush told us that "they hate us for our freedom." This is a method of creating chaos and fear for the purpose of controlling populations. The rabbis and bankers have been controlling "Jews" this way for 2000 years and creating a great deal of trouble for everyone else.


The U.S. "war on terror" as formulated by the current administration is some existential conflict with radical evil.


It's a self-originating and self-perpetuating farce, like the rabbis' "war on antisemitism."


Are nut jobs in Israel? Yes. Are there pragmatists in the U.S.? Of course. But the two countries actually approach terrorism in completely different ways.


Pragmatists? Is this euphemism directed towards the "Israel"-first warmonger-zealots who've gained power in Washington? The only difference in approach I see between the nut jobs in "Israel" and the nut jobs in Washington is that the nut jobs in Washington have to sell Americans on the idea that their Zionist crusade somehow serves American interests. But even that pretense is dropping as the present zeitgeist seems to be that it's perfectly natural that the U.S. would be sacrificed for the "good" of "Israel."

Citizenfitz said...

Big, Fat John

Every mornin' at the church you'd see him arrive
He stood five foot six and weighed 3-45
Kinda' narrow at the shoulder and wide at the hips
And everybody knew The Lord was on the lips of Big John
(Big John Big John) Big Fat John (Big John)

Nobody seemed to know where John called home
Just tumbled like a weed into San Anton...
He couldn't talk enough and he wasn't shy
He'd just reach for your money and then say "bye" - Big John

Somebody said he came down from above
Where he saw the light! Flashing: "Mammon is love."
And a crashin' blow from God's right hand
Sent another gabby preacher into TV Land - Big John
(Big John Big John) Big Fat John (Big John)

Then came the day when John went live
And a camera lens cracked from the force of his jive
Sinners were prayin' hard and their hearts beat fast
And everybody worried that they'd breathed their last, 'cept John

Through the screams and the wails walked the man from hell
A local televangelist they all knew knew well
He grabbed a saggin' sinner and gave out with a groan
And that human barrel cactus thought, "Let's give 'em a show." - Big John
(Big John Big John) Big Fat John (Big John)

And with all of his strength he gave a mighty shove
And the sinner yelled out, "I see a light from above!"
Then a thousand folks scrambled at the altar call
And when he said, "Israel!" they began to fall - for big John

With piles of money, some Jews soon appeared
And they told big John, "We like what we hear!"
And so, the mantra "Israel" soon was heard
Hard on the heels of every other word of Big John
(Big John Big John) Big Fat John (Big John)

Now he's just a big, fat piece of s***
Suckin' like a babe on Israel's poison tit
Denyin' Christ and praisin' mammon...

Make way below for a big... fat... man - Big John

(Big John Big John) Big Fat John
(Big John Big John) Big Fat John

Citizenfitz